			    TRAVELLER Digest 81

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Seeking ghost.cc.missouri.edu	by ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck)
  2) BR, miniatures, etc.	by Patrick Murphy <murphy@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
  3) Re: TRAVELLER digest 80	by Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
  4) TRAVELLER digest 80	by Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
  5) Re: Traveller Minatures	by E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk (Ewan D Quibell)
  6) BL/BR glop...	by merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  7) Auroras vs. Azhanti High Lightning	by Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
  8) Stutterwarp (Shudderwarp?) questions	by Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
  9) Supernovas & s**t	by Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 24 Oct 1994 17:40:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu (Joseph Heck)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (TML Submissions)
Cc: mf1@st-andrews.ac.uk (Mark)
Subject: Seeking ghost.cc.missouri.edu
Message-ID: <9410242240.AA14920@showme.missouri.edu>

Mark Fletcher said:

>Anyone know what has happened to ghost.cc.missouri.edu ftp site? Ive
>tried logging in all weekend, and Ive been getting strange messages. I
>just tried this morning, and got the message "Unknown Host.".

Sorry folks,

I was in Chicago all last week at the WWW confrence and my desktop machine
got munged by a co-worker (the FTP & Gopher server). I fixed it this morning
pronto, so it should be okay now...

-- 
 joe                          (314) 882-5000
 ccjoe@showme.missouri.edu    University of Missouri - Columbia  
 "with a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and
 impenetrable fog!" -- Calvin
 <A HREF="http://www.missouri.edu/~ccjoe">ccjoe</A>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:06:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: Patrick Murphy <murphy@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: BR, miniatures, etc.
Message-ID: <Pine.CVX.3.90.941024235409.18046A-100000@gibbs.oit.unc.edu>

Greetings, all.

First off, I must say I was both quite impressed and quite disappointed 
with BATTLE RIDER.  Impressed, because I liked the diceless, 
decision-oriented style of play; disappointed, because I was hoping for 
some beefy stats on all those ships!

As someone who used to play Classic Traveller, lured back by TNE, I don't 
know squat about a good many of the ships contained therein.  And all I 
got was a bunch of counters and no background, ship names, etc., let 
alone Brilliant Lances/Traveller stats.  Can anyone shed some light on 
these vessels, or perhaps point me to a source (hopefully anonymous 
FTP!)? And where are those big boys from FIGHTING SHIPS OF THE SHATTERED 
IMPERIUM or whatever??

I wish for similar reasons that RAFM had included some sort of sheet with 
my miniatures detailing the ships, registry nos., etc.  Some of us don't 
have 15 years worth of material to draw from here.  I've seen the SDB, 
CE, and Free Traders...what other miniatures are out?

Would anyone with silhouettes of any new ships be willing to scan them 
and post them to somewhere like ghost?  That would be key for those of us 
interested in printing up our own new counters...

And finally, would someone care to post references to the various alien 
languages of Traveller (I realize this could be quite extensive)?  As a 
linguist, I've often pondered beefing up one of these languages a la Marc 
Okrand.  Just a thought.

OK, OK, I'll be quiet now.  Thanks for any help you can give me.

Ciao,
Patrick M.
murphy@gibbs.oit.unc.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 00:40:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Llaneza <mllaneza@mercury.sfsu.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: Multiple recipients of list <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 80
Message-ID: <Pine.3.89.9410250045.A16120-0100000@mercury>

Coupla comments.

1) Virus and the Black Curtain


	I think you all have developed  a perfectly logical summary of what is 
happening behind the Black Curtain. Sure, now if I have this all down 
right. Virus takes over the data systems on Capitol and becomes super 
intelligence. Simple enough.
	Problem, what if it decides that it is now the Emperor . After 
all, it can claim the throne by right of assassination. That worked for a 
lot of admirals who didn't have an iota of the power that CapitolVirus 
has. So we have an AI as Emperor if it wants the throne.
	Then what? Then things would get REALLY SCARY. Remember, the 
Imperium has been working on FTL communications. Every computer in the 
galaxy could wind up in one big Net. There's an internet for you. I'd be 
loging in from sfsu.edu.earth. Even if the time was days per parsec, 
that's a manageable lag. If it was less, things would get worse. One 
computer,over all the galaxy. Shiver.
	Then we note that we got cybernetics in FSS, and not robotics.
	
	The Borg probably started out like that. I'd say that that's not 
the way its gonna happen. GDW caught enough flak ower the Virus in the 
first place. They'd never compound that mistake. We would simply not buy it.

	So, nice theory. But we'll never see it. I hope. Its a good idea, 
but not a great one.


	And 2) That supernova thing. How about cutting off a section of 
space by means of the supernova. Imagine if an area smaller than the 
Spinward Marches was cut of completely from the Imperium?

there's my MCr 1E-8


Michael Carter Llaneza
Conceptual Design Services             The Worse it gets,
Pi Kappa Phi                           The more I get used to it.
"I am the NRA"			       Duty Now For The Future


------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 94 04:14:27 EDT
From: Hugh Foster <100326.446@compuserve.com>
To: "INTERNET:traveller@mpgn.com" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: TRAVELLER digest 80
Message-ID: <941025081427_100326.446_BHB79-2@CompuServe.COM>

>>Mr Foster, we are all entitled to our own opinions. Maybe you would like to
speculate as to what is behind the Black Curtain...?<<

I have wondered. I have greatly enjoyed the suggestions posted here and, based
on what we all know about GDW psych, they're probably near the truth. The
history interests me, even if I don't like the flavour of the changes. I think I
must be the only subber on TML or X-Boat who has an interest in the history but
hates the system. Sorry, but it _is_ a completely different game. Apply the new
rules to the old situation and everything changes - weapons and ship design
features do different things. A ship that was good suddenly becomes bad. It's as
if this morning you suddenly find your Jaguar is now slower than Mum's Lada.
NOM. (If this doesn't mean No Offence Meant then it should!)

>>Any Brits out there on the list who could tell me where I could buy Traveller
minatures?<<

God, I wish I could! There were a very good series made by Denizen, which I
bought from the magnificent and (sob) defunct Games of Liverpool - not Traveller
particularly but very good sci-fi leads without being WarHamster Chaos
Nobblies.
If you find out, giz a yell!

>>It certainly is interesting that GDW decided that it was more important to
include Cyborg design rules in FF&S then features like robots that had a
history in traveller.<<



I would say this represents a veering from the Classic influences of fiction by
Asimov, Clarke and Lucas (Star Wars) and toward the current gaming trend of Dark
Future. This has coloured Traveller recently anyway but don't get me started!

>>Anyone running 'borgs in their games?<<

Actually, I've just engineered a (highly believable) wormhole that dropped 202
Borg ships into the Foreven (in the system where Our Boys were at the time. As a
rather over-kind GM, my players were suffering from excess hubris of firepower
and the Borg are the perfect amswer. They crapped themselves. Traveller ships
have no defence against "away" teams. BTW, has anyone else merged Trek and
Traveller ? What, if anything, for example, can jam transporters ?

>>Mark Fletcher, University of St Andrews<<

Hey! I would'a gone there if I hadn't screwed up my A-Levels! Whatcha do ?

	- WD


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 16:49:29 +0000 (GMT)
From: E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk (Ewan D Quibell)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Traveller Minatures
Message-ID: <9410251649.AA17727@diamond.bton.ac.uk>

I'd also like to know where I can get my hands on the new traveller
minitures. I havn't been to London yet (in the search for them) but I can't
find them in the gamming shops of the south coast (Brighton), or East Anglia
(Chelmsford and Colchester), or the centre of Birimingham.

So if any Brits out there do know, I like the poster before, would like to
get my mits on them.

Thanks

Ewan


------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- E.D.Quibell ------------------------------------ Thought is just about----
-- Data Communications Technician ----------------- the hardest thing a----
-- University of Brighton ------------------------- human can do - which----
--------------------------------------------------- probably explains why----
-- Email  e.d.quibell@bton.ac.uk ------------------ so few seem to do it.----
--        quibez@essex.ac.uk -------------------------------- Henry Ford-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Who me ? Na, I didn't say that. My Employers ? They don't say anything---
----- My spelling is entirely due to dyslexia, typos, and poetic licence-----

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 25 Oct 1994 12:34:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@RT66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM (traveller)
Subject: BL/BR glop...
Message-ID: <9410251834.AA05867@RT66.com>


I've been following the PAWS/MSG/Laser thread for a while, and decided
to go with limiting lasers above some as of yet undecided (leaning
towards TL*50) discharge energy... I was thinking of making the FA
volume (mass, etc) non-linear, so that you *could* make 'em, but they'd
be less effective (but, hey, you might want one for some non-combat
reasons in a campaign).

Along those lines, I was thinking of making laser lances become less
feasible at a slower rate, so there would be a market for laser spinal
mounts, perhaps (you can't steer the singularity required to focus the
huge amount of energy, etc, blah, blah blah :)

Any ideas out there?


Along a different line of thought, I am still interested in converting
my favorite old ships (from CT fighting ships, etc), but the task is
daunting (in some cases impossible, ever design an 8000ton "T" meson gun
in FFS? ha ha).

One thing I did do was to convert all of the jump/maneuver/fuel stuff
(and the powerplant required for the man. drive) into % of displacement
tons format... that way I can look at, say the old Tigress and say, J4,
M6 with 50 g-turns(and PP to drive it) takes up 58% of the disp. A
decent meson gun is like 110,000tons, so add another 22% for80% total...
1.8% for LS and AG, say 8% for quarters... we've got 10% left to play
with. Anyway, it results in some quick and dirty converstions (at least
far enough for BR stats if not BL). of the 10%, maybe 5% should just be
slop, and the 430 50ton missle bays are almost 5% alone, not to mention
the 300 50ton fighters--the Tigress isn't looking do-able as it was, so I
would go back and make it work (M4 would save like 1%, while J3 would
save 6%... fewer g-turns is possible, but who wants to build a huge pig
that has to worry about the smallest velocity change).

BTW anyone ever think about 21,500 missles launched from bays.  Yeesh.
We decided to have bay-mounted missles all attack the same target ie:you
launch 10 50ton bays at the BB over there... individual swarms from a
give bay fly together along the same path, no splitting, and control
*must* come from the launching ship (gang fire control cannot be passed
off due to its complexity (blah, blah)).

Keep up the BL/BR stuff!

Merrick


------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 94 11:24:50 ES
From: Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Auroras vs. Azhanti High Lightning
Message-ID: <9410251808.AA02741@internet1.lotus.com>

Allen Shock [originally] wrote:
>>We took 7 Aurora class clippers up against the AHL, without using
>>fighters. The AHL was defeated, but there were only two Auroras left 
>>at the end, and the HL's final death was due to a "Ship Explodes" 
>>result.

wildstar @ qrc.com (Derek Wildstar) responded:
>Seven Auroras?  That's about 10,500 aggregate tons and at TL-12, too;
>the rough equivalent of sending Osa-class PTMs against a US Aegis 
>cruiser.  And the Auroras win?  That doesn't sound right, unless that 
>was a lucky hit.  I don't have Battle Rider, but if the combat had 
>been played out with Brilliant Lances rules, the Auroras would have
>been toast.

[further stuff about why this is true, and historical notes about the
AHL deleted]

I'd have to agree.  I don't have BR yet either, but it doesn't sound
realistic.  

But remember that anything is possible.  The case in this point is
Cynthia's complaint that Steve always beats her with the Terrans in
_Imperium_...  Talk about unlikely!!!

BTW, Cynthia, how does he do that, anyway?  I've been playing
Imperium since before it's designer's grandparents were born and we
[my various opponents and I] have _NEVER_ been able to achieve an
overall victory for the Terrans...  What's his secret, anyway?  Or
do you have some private house rules (like "Steve always wins")?

8^)...   <--Smiley, drooling in anticipation of learning the secret!


--Derek

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Smith - Lotus Development Corporation - Release Engineering

"Oh, for the good old days, when lasers were lasers, and 
battledress was butter..."

                    -Lt. Colonel Jonathan "Gronk" Verdell,
                     Imperial Marines, Retired.

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 94 12:38:18 ES
From: Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Stutterwarp (Shudderwarp?) questions
Message-ID: <9410251806.AA02291@internet1.lotus.com>

>Ted7 (Mitchell Scwartz) wrote (in response to Glenn Myers):
>Is that add or cause? Actually, stutterwarp would cause a lot of
>problems since it is limited to 7.7 ly for a travel hop: slightly more
>than J2. J3 distances would cause the drive to emit major radiation 
>killing the crew and damaging its electronics (according to T:2300).

>What is called when you CAUSE a future reality discontinuity that would
>require some future retcon? (If there isn't such a term, I'd go for 
>furdis...) Certainly GDW created enough furdis (plural same as 
>singular; like sheep or sh*t :-) with the introduction of T:TNE...

Actually, stutterwarp causes more problems than that, which were
never addressed in 2300..

Like, um, for example, the fact that a ship stutterwarping at full
efficiency, heading straight for your ship, is INVISIBLE, period, 
with ZERO CHANCE OF DETECTION (ie - a roll of automatic success
indicates a failure) to ANY SENSOR SYSTEM LIMITED TO THE SPEED OF
LIGHT.

Such a ship will eventually show up on your sensors, AFTER IT'S
TOO LATE, and will appear to be moving IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

Once it's past you, that ship will be impossible to hit.

Of course, once a Stutterwarp ship comes into the area of a system
where it's efficiency degrades sufficiently that it's apparent
velocity is sublight, things get more manageable.

(Yuck.  I just reread the above sentence and realized what a dog
it is...  This might be an insult to dogs.)

If you put Stutterwarp in your campaign, you'd better also add FTL
(ie: Tachyon) Sensors, or be willing to assume that space combat 
never occurs except in the immediate vicinity of a large mass.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Derek Smith - Lotus Development Corporation - Release Engineering

These are not the opinions of Lotus Development Corporation,
which is not in the Faster-Than-Light Technology Business [yet].

"This has all the earmarks of an eyesore."
                       - James McSheehy

------------------------------

Date: 25 Oct 94 12:00:55 ES
From: Derek Smith <Derek_Smith.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
To: traveller <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Supernovas & s**t
Message-ID: <9410251807.AA02534@internet1.lotus.com>

Glen Meyers wrote:- 
>>How long will the [super?]nova last before it collapses to a white
>>dwarf. Years? Decades? I need to know how long jump travel will be
>>impossible.  Would it prohibit space travel in nearby systems? If so,
>>for how long?


dlg @ jb.man.ac.uk (Duncan Law-Green) replied: 
>I would guess that core collapse of a massive star to a neutron star 
>during a supernova takes of the order of the sound crossing time of the 
>degenerate core. Seconds, in other words.
>
>I'm an extragalactic astronomer, not a stellar one, so don't quote me
>on that <grin>... 
>
>Jump travel is so much technobullsh*t, so you can give whatever
>timescale you want for how long the supernova interferes with Jump
>travel..."gravitational radiation from the supernova event disturbs the
>Jump continua causing Jump travel to be extremely hazardous for 
>years/decades/whatever..."

Well,

1)  Duncan is probably right about the time of core collapse...  It
would take the time it takes for sound (travelling in a much denser
medium than air, so it would move much faster) to traverse the radius
of the collapsing portion of the original star.  Note that if this
is a SUPERnova, then the result will probably NOT be a white dwarf,
but a RAPIDLY spinning Neutron Star (a Pulsar), or a Black Hole (or
a Pulsar that draws in enough mass over it's life to become a Black
Hole eventually).  Note also that the Neutron Star, or Black Hole
will have a LESSER pull of gravity than the original star (insystem), 
because the original star will have blown off a portion of its mass.
This of course, assumes that you go no closer to it than the original
star's radius.  Once you get closer to it than that, all bets are
off (see Larry Niven's _Neutron Star_ for an example of how simple,
innocuous tidal effects can KILL YOU).

2)  It will make jump travel impossible for ZERO time.  In other words
it will have NO EFFECT on jump travel whatsoever.  Gravity is caused
by MASS, and the MASS hasn't changed, just been redistributed.  (ie -
Spent stellar fuel is blown off, and the core shrinks.  But [most]
of the mass is still there), and there is NO INCREASE in gravity
at normal distances from the star.

3)  It would not prohibit space travel in nearby systems.  However,
if those systems were really close, astronomically speaking, and the
SUPERnova were REALLY big, it could affect the environment of worlds
in the closest systems.  How much is debatable (that's a clever way
of saying that it's up to the GM (that's you!))

4)  The energy density of the original kaboom, however, would be
very dangerous to ships in the system (like a 100 MT detonation is
dangerous to a single bacterium), and this shell of hard radiation
will expand in two waves (one, the electromagnetic portion, will
travel outward from the former star at the speed of light.  The
second wave, high energy particles, will travel at slightly slower
speeds).  Remember though, that the density of this energy falls
off with the inverse of the cube of it's distance from the star
from which it was expunged...  By the time it gets, say, one
parsec away, it will be pretty feeble.

------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 81
**************************
